Close The Deal Podcast WithDr. Kate Lund

Clinical Psychologist and Resilience Expert

Show Notes for Dr. Kate Lund

ewell smith

Disruptors, we've got a special episode with Dr. Caitlin and everybody's life is busy. professionals, entrepreneurs, just trying to balance every aspect of our lives between kids, going to school, raising the kids, bringing them to school, going to work, keeping your business running and then coming back and adjusting to life. And that's what we're going to talk about with Dr. Kate London today. I want to welcome you to the show. You're coming from Seattle, Washington. ah Glad to have you.

00:36.19

Dr. Kate

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This is great.

00:39.64

ewell smith

And yeah you've got a great background. We're going to touch a little bit on your early background in a moment ah from your time with the White House, which is fascinating to me. ah But before we get to that, you are that what describe what you do, youre you're your practice.

00:56.83

Dr. Kate

Sure. So I'm a, I'm a clinical psychologist and an author. And that's what I've been focusing on for the past 20, 22 years.

01:06.25

ewell smith

OK.

01:06.65

Dr. Kate

And it's been it's been great. It's been a great journey.

01:10.83

ewell smith

So you as an, as your own practice, you are an entrepreneur in and of yourself. And a lot of people are solo producers. I have small practices and my dad was a dentist. He had his practice. Uh, what it was, when you say, this is always the fascinating part for me is people, whenever they're starting out, there's always the challenges of getting going. What was the biggest challenge you had getting, cause you made a career transition.

01:38.09

ewell smith

And we're talking about when wait what why, but you started this practice.

01:38.50

Dr. Kate

Yes.

01:43.21

ewell smith

What was the biggest challenge you had getting it going?

01:46.14

Dr. Kate

Right. That's a great question. And certainly there were challenges. And so the career transition came a little bit before the the challenges, but we can touch on that later if you'd like. The challenge for me getting started, to be honest. So I was in Boston and did all my training in Boston. Really, really fortunate. Had some great opportunities with Harvard Medical School and the hospitals affiliated with them, and it was just awesome.

02:12.69

Dr. Kate

I loved it. And then my husband got transferred away from Boston. And so there was kind of a, hmm, how's this going to evolve type of question? And so that was the first challenge of really getting going because I would have stayed in Boston for for quite a while longer, right? So that was the first thing, but you know, it all evened out. I moved to Connecticut with him. I did my postdoctoral training at the University of Hartford.

02:41.15

Dr. Kate

and thought that I was on the runway right to to get going. um And then we were really, really blessed. We were fortunate. Our twin boys were born right after I finished my postdoc at the University of Hartford. And there again, I was on the runway a little time off. It was going to be great.

02:59.85

Dr. Kate

And then my husband got transferred again. And so there was that piece of how's this going to work, you know, and, you know, looking back, it it all worked out fine.

03:09.97

Dr. Kate

And in those times it was working out okay. But there was always that pull like, wait, I want to really establish my career.

03:16.40

ewell smith

Mm hmm.

03:17.01

Dr. Kate

I want to establish as a professional, my professional identity, you know, all of that. But, you know, there was flexibility, there was pivoting involved and,

03:27.92

Dr. Kate

You know, it, it was just perhaps not the direction I had envisioned up front, but you know what?

03:34.92

ewell smith

Yep.

03:35.38

Dr. Kate

Things have evolved in a really cool way over time. And we moved about five or six more times within that, you know, right, right after that.

03:42.39

ewell smith

Wow.

03:43.54

Dr. Kate

So I think that in a nutshell, this is a long way of saying my biggest challenge was all of my husband's job transitions and moves and how my career development fit into that.

03:57.54

ewell smith

Yeah, that's a journey in itself.

03:57.60

Dr. Kate

Um, yeah.

03:59.83

ewell smith

Try to figure that out. and in It is never a straight line.

04:03.15

Dr. Kate

Right. I mean, you' right. It's never a straight line. I mean, that's, that goes without saying, I just feel like there were maybe a few more squiggles in the midst here because, you know, my, you know, kind of establishing that professional identity, um, was really is, was, and is still continues to be really important to me.

04:24.42

Dr. Kate

And it was just a lot of pivoting and flexibility involved.

04:24.48

ewell smith

yeah

04:27.10

Dr. Kate

And as I look back, a lot of great times too. I mean, I had, I was basically single parenting my first three years as a mom because Ted was on the road six days a week.

04:39.01

Dr. Kate

And the boys and I had a great time. It was exhausting. It was stressful. It probably was the catalyst for my focus on resilient parenting.

04:47.68

ewell smith

Yeah. Yep.

04:49.87

Dr. Kate

But, you know, it all, it all comes full circle eventually. and We can connect the dots.

04:55.86

ewell smith

You know, and that and and that's what we'll delve into is the resilient parenting piece. Now, and I wanted you to share that piece because that kind of shares, you know, yeah definitely laid the groundwork for what you do today.

05:10.51

ewell smith

um But in that process, you didn't start there.

05:10.62

Dr. Kate

Right.

05:15.84

ewell smith

And I want to first ask you, before we go back to the White House piece, I want to bring that up, but who or what, who or what,

05:20.07

Dr. Kate

think

05:24.90

ewell smith

you know what was What influenced you? Who he who are what are you grateful for today along to get you where you are right now?

05:33.11

Dr. Kate

Right. to give Well, to get me to where I am right now, you know I'll go way back to my childhood. you know it Really grateful for my parents, grateful for their support, helping me through some some challenges as a child. I had a medical condition that that had to be dealt with early on, and you know that really dealing with that in the way that they dealt with it and helped me to deal with it really was a catalyst for the direction that I was able to go.

06:00.35

Dr. Kate

So their support was pivotal. pivotal And now, you know, I'm grateful for my husband, I'm grateful for my boys, um you know, really as my foundation, you know, my foundation for enabling all of this to have happened in in the way that it's developed.

06:07.55

ewell smith

Yeah.

06:18.35

ewell smith

Well, that's, and I appreciate that for sure. I think that's all the case for a lot of people is their family that roots them, drives them to do to to do what they do. But your career didn't start out that way. Your career literally started as an intern at the White House, which we've talked about prior. um And you were in the media section helping communications and so forth. Why the shift?

06:43.07

Dr. Kate

Yeah, you know that's that's a great question you'll and you know, I had a ah concentration in journalism along with my psychology major in college and I had this really great opportunity to do an exchange program with American University when I was a senior in college and And as part of that, we had to apply for internships in Washington, D.C.

07:04.42

Dr. Kate

And I was really fortunate to get one at the White House ah early on in the Clinton administration and super cool experience.

07:07.48

ewell smith

That's amazing

07:12.32

Dr. Kate

I absolutely loved it. And while i I was kind of sure that I was going to go back to graduate school at some point, I knew that when I graduated from college, i I wasn't going to go right to graduate school. And so this experience in Washington was so cool. I loved it. I loved being at the White House. I loved the opportunities that afforded me.

07:34.10

Dr. Kate

And I knew I wanted to live in D.C. at least for a while. And so that is what I did. But I also learned while at the White House on the White House lawn at four in the morning.

07:45.34

Dr. Kate

helping set up chairs for the media or an event that was coming up. Broadcast wasn't probably going to be the right um area for me, a little bit too intense, a little bit too much kind of hair makeup early in the, you know, it just, it was a bit. And so I knew there had to be another angle. So when I moved back to Washington, I got into, um, Marketing and public relations for some of the for PBS the learning channel discovery that sort of thing through an agency It was a great great experience, but there was always this underlying pull like I love what I'm doing, but

08:23.69

Dr. Kate

And so ultimately after Ted and I got married, we moved to Boston, did the PR and marketing thing for another year with um some brands, other brands, Ronzoni Pasta, Chase Corporate Challenge, which was really fun, by the way, because I got to travel around the country with spokespeople for the Chase Corporate Challenge.

08:39.62

ewell smith

yeah

08:45.86

ewell smith

Mm-hmm.

08:46.07

Dr. Kate

And it was super fun. You know, these, they were runners. They were really, really cool people.

08:49.28

ewell smith

Yeah.

08:51.41

Dr. Kate

but there was still that, that pull.

08:52.84

ewell smith

Yeah, fine.

08:53.71

Dr. Kate

And, um, you know, there was, there was a point in time where we were setting up for an event and some of my colleagues got in a fight in a grocery store about the position of the pasta box on the shelf.

09:05.28

ewell smith

Hmm.

09:08.36

Dr. Kate

And I just couldn't quite, I couldn't quite get there. So it was at that point that I decided, okay, I'm going to apply to graduate school and I'm going to move in this direction of becoming a psychologist and the rest is history.

09:20.95

ewell smith

Wow, you and I share that to that degree. yeah But I didn't have the direction. I defaulted to a psychology degree at LSU, as I was supposed to be pre-med. And I knew that wasn't going to happen real quick. I figured that out. And then my psychology degree didn't prepare me for much at the time. Later in life, i really came it's coming very helpful. but Coming out straight out of college was not knowing what you want to do. It just kind of left me wondering. But what you talked about was good, because so many people do something they don't enjoy, or they have the butt, but they don't do anything about the butt. You know, they just keep going through it and realize 20 years later, they're like oh my gosh, I've just spent 20 years doing something I really

10:10.47

ewell smith

And I showed that it was useful or helpful to my life, fulfillment to the fulfillment part of my life.

10:17.90

Dr. Kate

Right, and that's such a great point, right? That's such a great point and yeah, sometimes those 20 years do go by and You know, it's it's it's a hard thing. And so finding that, that why, that thing early is really, really helpful.

10:31.68

ewell smith

Yeah, it's helpful.

10:34.07

Dr. Kate

But, you know, yeah, really, really helpful.

10:36.03

ewell smith

It's never too late. It's never too late. It's never like turning around and pursue that, that scratch that itch.

10:38.84

Dr. Kate

That's so funny. I was about to say that.

10:44.40

ewell smith

I say, you know, figure out what it is that you've always wanted to do. Maybe it's time to do that. Now let's shift gears one more time. Cause I was, I just found your background really cool.

10:54.53

ewell smith

Cause we shared some commonalities there. Uh, talking about other people we knew, um,

10:59.85

Dr. Kate

Yes.

11:01.95

ewell smith

But today, your your role, the problem that you solve is you help parents who are very busy with their lives and their businesses and their work balance all this so so that they're resilient.

11:15.84

Dr. Kate

yeah

11:17.74

ewell smith

And I think there's more distractions now I can't imagine, you know, I'm not a parent, but I look at my parents, what they went through with me. And then I look at a parents, what they go through today with kids, with cell phones, these things right here, cell phones and everything else. I just cannot imagine the demands, the concerns, all the things that happen. And that's how you coach and help people with your practice. Let's unpack that. And, you know, how do you help people in that area?

11:51.48

Dr. Kate

Sure. Yeah, that's that's a great question. And thank you for that question. it's it's It's complex. I mean, there's no one size fits all, right? But we always have sort of a ah go-to, a structure that we we work from. And then we tailor according to you know each client's specific needs. But the first thing that I work with people on that I teach them the value of is this idea of managing your stress response.

12:18.24

Dr. Kate

So what that means is essentially quieting your central nervous system.

12:20.85

ewell smith

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

12:23.47

Dr. Kate

And that is really essential and serves as a powerful foundation for everything that comes next, right? Because if we're kind of going through life escalated already at like this point and then a challenge hits, boom, we're going to escalate to the point of literal shutdown and then

12:36.63

ewell smith

the

12:43.75

Dr. Kate

We're not going to be able to function in our own right. We're not going to be able to be there fully for our kids, the whole thing. So finding a way to quiet our central nervous systems for all of us, and this actually applies like across domains you know beyond just parenting, of course, is essential. And so I work with a technique um developed by this physician in Boston. He's sadly ah no longer alive, but Herbert Benson and the relaxation response.

13:12.76

Dr. Kate

Essentially, it's so simple. you know We just have folks focus on a word or a phrase that they find soothing and breathe.

13:21.30

ewell smith

the

13:21.47

Dr. Kate

Get into a rhythm, a habit of doing this five to 10 minutes in the morning five to 10 minutes in the in the evening, serving as placeholders on each side of the day.

13:33.05

Dr. Kate

And after time, that really serves to create a modulated stress response so that your baseline is down here so that when a stressor hits, you can sort of roll with it, ebb and flow with it.

13:47.24

Dr. Kate

So that's the first thing, really, really key. Other ways of doing this, of course, and we can talk through them with with the clients,

13:54.97

ewell smith

the

13:55.68

Dr. Kate

But that's really the go-to for me. um And then you know helping folks to prioriti prioritize self-care beyond that. um We want them to cultivate a sense of self-awareness within that. What do they need to be caring for themselves fully? um So those is those are the first couple things that we really focus on at the beginning of our work.

14:22.83

Dr. Kate

And then there's this idea of you know the importance of having a strong support network around us. We think about that in relation to each person's unique experience. We want them to be appreciating their own unique context, not comparing themselves to what other people might need, but creating a strong network which fits their context and which works for them. Because we know in all the research states that having that level of social support is gonna help us to move through and beyond challenge when it comes up.

15:01.04

ewell smith

And you're talking about that from a personal side and a business side? Because I can certainly see it from a business side, right? You're trying to accomplish whatever it is, X. You're going to surround yourself with people who know how to do X. But you're talking about from a parenting side, too. How does that work?

15:17.97

Dr. Kate

Yeah, absolutely. So both sides, you know, if the parent is, a Business owner and entrepreneur and corporate corporate whatever, you know, we want to have that business side covered But yeah, we're talking largely from a personal side, you know um joining ah You know like a book club or making sure that you're connecting with old friends at least a couple times a month um you know, maybe setting up a dinner with other moms or other dads or

15:29.15

ewell smith

Mm-hmm.

15:51.81

Dr. Kate

you know, going out with another couple in the evening, you know, for dinner on a Saturday night, even though you're tired and you're feeling run down from the chaotic weekend with the kids or everything else you've got going on.

16:05.64

Dr. Kate

Carving out that time to connect with other people in real time is really vital because, as you know, as we've talked about, we've got this cell phone situation going on, right?

16:10.73

ewell smith

Uh-huh.

16:17.53

Dr. Kate

And we can feel like we're connected. but we're really not connected. And to have that real time support is very, very powerful.

16:23.72

ewell smith

Yeah.

16:28.45

Dr. Kate

And I work with people on sort of reflecting back on the times in the year or the week or the month or whatever in their life where they haven't had that level and then going out and having a lunch or a dinner or going to a book club or connecting with like-minded people around a hobby or an art class or there's so many different possibilities for doing this.

16:53.45

Dr. Kate

No one size fits all, but so important to do.

16:53.64

ewell smith

Yeah.

16:57.34

ewell smith

That's so easy. I mean, I can look at my wife and I, right? I mean, she does a lot of events in my career at the point where I was doing lots of events. The last thing we wanted to do on a weekend if we didn't have an event was to go to an event or go to dinner with other people.

17:13.43

ewell smith

We just wanted to chill. But but there um there comes a point where you have to do that. You have to connect with others. That's not just about business.

17:22.67

Dr. Kate

Exactly.

17:22.74

ewell smith

Yeah.

17:23.27

Dr. Kate

Exactly. And so in going to the events that you're talking about, you're yes, you're definitely connecting. So you're you're in ah in a better space than if you were sitting home that whole week and not connecting at all.

17:36.38

Dr. Kate

But yeah, connecting on that other level can be very powerful. Within the context of of what's working for you, like if you're really, really exhausted from a week of work or a week of events, yeah, absolutely.

17:44.22

ewell smith

Right. Sometimes you need to ah break too.

17:50.47

Dr. Kate

Yeah, I'm not advocating for like being out all the time. This is just particularly if you're you know if if you're on the other side of that that coin, so to speak.

18:00.82

ewell smith

I've been on the other side of the coin.

18:01.04

Dr. Kate

um

18:02.50

ewell smith

I was like, that's just times where I just want to just be all, you know, we just did so much of it, but you got to find that out.

18:10.09

Dr. Kate

Absolutely. and And again, right, it's finding the balance that works best for you. And, you know, it can be quick snippets of connecting, but that's yeah, that's really important. And then, you know, helping folks to embrace this idea of flexibility, optimism, gratitude, really important, because as parents, as people, you know, across domains, we can really get micro focused on the challenges.

18:26.39

ewell smith

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

18:39.03

Dr. Kate

And don't get me wrong, the challenges need to be managed, they need to be moved through and beyond. But we also need to really um take time concerted focus to focus on the things that are going well, and not just the challenges.

18:56.42

Dr. Kate

And so I work with folks on setting aside a time during the day, maybe at lunch, maybe in the evening, maybe in the morning, jotting down three to five things that went well, either the day before or on a good day, and you know, kind of fosters gratitude, fosters a sense of optimism, kind of helps folks to see

19:09.90

ewell smith

it.

19:21.05

Dr. Kate

what has gone well and move beyond and so neutralize that lens because you know human nature can focus us on the negative really fast and really easy, especially given you know everything we're hearing out there in the world. So that's a really important practice.

19:37.83

ewell smith

wow Anything else you want to hit on? buckka these these ah These are great. i mean ah The prioritizing self-care thing is also really important. It's so easy for us. I'm kind of going back a step here.

19:53.52

ewell smith

That one is interesting to me because it's so easy just to get complacent. I mean, both for the physical, mental and the spiritual piece, all all those pieces that we could focus. It's so easy to get lost in the work and let that medicate other areas of our lives to the point it's detrimental to our other parts of our lives.

20:18.56

ewell smith

you know

20:18.67

Dr. Kate

so true so true and it's really being intentional about carving out that time for that health care and creating a routine, a rhythm that works for you.

20:25.78

ewell smith

Yeah.

20:30.81

Dr. Kate

And again, there's no one size fits all, right? But it's important to figure that out.

20:34.42

ewell smith

Yeah. and And I think it's really fascinating because what the way you opened it was talking about setting the baseline of stress lower because it's so easy to start the day amped up or being waking up stressed about something, then the smallest thing is there going to become a big issue and it's really not even a big issue. So you help people unpack these in detail but through in-depth in-depth conversations um and walk them through this process.

21:14.85

ewell smith

what What happens next after you after you've coach people through these steps? Because, I mean, ah these are all make sense, you know, setting the baseline for the stress, prioritizing the self-care. Okay, yeah, you're out of tilt here. Let's look at this area. Building that this that network and the community of friends or others of common interest.

21:41.06

ewell smith

focusing on the right things that you touched on. what How do you cultivate this and nurture this going forward with others?

21:49.27

Dr. Kate

Yeah. And so that's a really good question, right? And that's a really important piece because we want all of these things to be integrated over time so that folks are kind of operating from this place of a resilient mindset. You know, we're not looking at resilience as just moving through like a singular challenge. It's more of having this resilient mindset plugged in so that that's where we're operating from.

22:19.33

Dr. Kate

And it takes time and it takes practice. And so, you know, we might encourage folks to journal, to really think through, you know, the shifts, the changes that they're making.

22:32.24

Dr. Kate

um You know, we encourage folks to be flexible in making these shifts because it takes time to form new directions, new habits, that sort of thing.

22:38.64

ewell smith

yeah

22:41.75

Dr. Kate

So, you know, and we can, yes, very, very intentional.

22:43.20

ewell smith

It's very intentional too.

22:46.74

ewell smith

I think that's what the key is here is you really help people that's so obvious when somebody else points it out to you. But when you're in the middle of it and if your life is kind of turmoil and your work is turmoil and you're trying to make sense out of it, it's hard to make sense for anybody.

22:55.86

Dr. Kate

Yes.

23:07.51

ewell smith

while they're in the storm. They cannot see everything that's swirling around them. That's what you help. You can see it from the outside in. And so for asking them questions, drawing out information, and providing clari giving them a sense of pathway to clarity so they can see but they where they should be.

23:29.71

ewell smith

How they can start turning things around and make it better to find that balance and find that resiliency so they can continue to move forward. mess Am I kind of summarizing that all right?

23:36.29

Dr. Kate

Exactly. That is perfect. That's spot on. And then, you know, really encouraging folks to understand that small changes, you know, have a big impact and we don't have to go from A to Z all at once, you know, it's those small changes.

23:48.13

ewell smith

Yeah.

23:54.44

Dr. Kate

consistency in making those shifts and helping them to see that and appreciate that so that they're not beating themselves up for the process taking taking time because that's that's the reality it takes time.

24:08.31

ewell smith

Yeah, I think everybody needs that kind of coaching. I mean, there's a reason why a basketball player has a coach. They never get better. They never get better if they don't have coaching.

24:19.04

ewell smith

That's the same thing for life, same thing for business. so It applies for everything. And you help bring that level of clarity. Before I go to how people can find you, because I think this is a great place to to land this.

24:31.65

Dr. Kate

Yeah.

24:31.80

ewell smith

um If you were to do things over, What would you have done differently? Maybe that's a question I haven't asked a while. What would you do differently? And how would you apply that to help others today?

24:48.32

Dr. Kate

Wow, that is such a great question. And I think about that. I reflect on that um quite frequently. And I honestly, I spent a long, long time um doing more traditional clinical work, one-to-one, you know, uh, clinical work.

25:09.19

Dr. Kate

And while I love that, uh, I, I would have started this angle on things earlier. I would have built this piece of my workout earlier than I did is, is what I will exactly to reach more people, help more people.

25:22.64

ewell smith

reach more people. Yeah.

25:27.87

Dr. Kate

Um, absolutely. I would, I would, You know, and I would not, um, you know, I would not wait so long to start certain things like writing a book or, you know, starting a podcast or these things.

25:42.28

Dr. Kate

I wouldn't wait quite so long because I was worried about the technical aspects or would it work out or what have you.

25:48.92

ewell smith

Yeah.

25:49.56

Dr. Kate

I wouldn't have held myself back quite so long.

25:52.33

ewell smith

Yeah, I think a lot of people get stuck on in the perfection part instead of it prevents some perfectionism prevents but progress. And they just don't, take they don't take any steps.

26:01.41

Dr. Kate

Yes.

26:03.23

ewell smith

They freeze up and they stay stuck.

26:06.30

Dr. Kate

Right.

26:06.37

ewell smith

So let's get some people unstuck if they're stuck.

26:09.39

Dr. Kate

fifth

26:09.56

ewell smith

I don't listen to this hopefully. And how how can people reach out to you? How can they connect with you? What's the best way?

26:16.03

Dr. Kate

Sure. So my website is a great way, which is katelundspeaks dot.com. So that's a great one. And LinkedIn is the is the other but good one. i'm I'm very active on LinkedIn.

26:27.97

ewell smith

Fantastic. Well, I'll have your links on on the landing page for your show. And kate yeah to Dr. Len, I appreciate your time today. This has been fantastic. ah You and I speak the same language.

26:39.40

ewell smith

Oh, my gosh. I can ah feel like i feel like we've known each other for 20 years. So I really appreciate it.

26:45.17

Dr. Kate

yeah Isn't that fun? Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.

26:49.76

ewell smith

ah Thank you. All right.